Arnie, as you don't like actual description of behaviour of an invading Army against the civilian population (it is what actually occurred to civilians by an official NATO and MATO encouraged army) - better for you to subscribe somewhere more calm, where real experiences from an official NATO Army are hidden under the rug (no attack on other NATO Armies - including Britain's and Greece's who acted in 1974 to protect the civilian populations from the Turkish onslaught against all non-ethnic Turkish civilians.

I'm sure you agree that murder and rapes of civilians by official armed forces, especially those from civilized societies, cannot be but classified as definitely being war crimes.

Another activity, also classified as a War Crime, under the Geneva Convention is the introduction of settlers from the country of the occupier, being as it is an attempt to change the national character of the occupied lands and effectively ethnic cleansing, which the Turks throughout history have had a habit of doing and specialised in.

How do you think they became the majority in Eastern Thrace, western Asia Minor, Imvros and Tenedos?

I ask you what is more important? Bricks and mortar or one's freedom to return to ones homeland if one chooses to. This is a fundamental human right. Do you, or do you not believe in the ECHR? I'm sure the GC from the North care to regain their local areas and the TC to the South, all in good time, than sell their fathers’ rights for a few coppers. The TCs can remain and pay them a reduced (to market value set by a Tribunal) rent to reflect the length of residence and the fact they paid for the structure they occupy. Eventually the GCs should have rights of Eminent Domain restored. Same for the TCs in the South That is the European way isn't it?

No question I agree that demolition is a stupid idea that came from unrealistic British judges (lawyers, what do you expect?) You didn't mention money going the other way, GCs paying to get full Ownership of the structures and improvements to buildings located on lands they own. Why didn’t you? The same for the TCs for structures in the South. Mortgages can be lent against these properties to pay compensations either way.

Overall, British people, if genuinely neutral mist not make comments encouraging ethnic segregation of N Cyprus as I feel you did with your statement. Yes for a few years a control can be in place ensuring the TC are 50%+, but the larger the area of the TC Federal province the more difficult and unrealistic this will be. A TC Federal province with a fairer land balance to fit the numbers of genuine TC, born in Cyprus etc., then no problem. Eventually, the TC province will have to modify their arrangements with the other province to fully comply with the Acquis and continue to qualify for aid.

I recommend you get to speed with the facts of what actually is happening in N. Cyprus, and occurred in Cyprus from 1960 to the present Arnie.

Stop saying stuff that effectively supports the Ottoman master plans for Cyprus, that is ethnic cleansing of a majority ethnic Greek Northern Cyprus and cease minimising the fact that it is the Turkish Army Generals that are main factor and decision makers in the Cyprus Question today, the occupiers as the Nazi Army was the occupier in mainland Europe during WWII, and the main preventer of a just solution now. The population has been brainwashed as the German people were. The TMT started that process decades before partition, years ago. I make no apologies for calling a ‘spade a spade’ where it is needed as it is here.

I, for one, would like to see no side being rewarded for taking violent and armed action from 1960 to now.

Loriot, do you know why TMT was created? When you realy do know than talk about it. I have another angle on this matter I like to bring to you all. Let me start by saying, Greeks are brilliant political, diplomatic and very good sales no doubt about that. I must add Greeks are very good at turning anything Turkish in to Greek and putting their stamp on it as their own. Very possessive lot. Let’s have some examples. What is ciftetelli in Greek? In Turkish it means duel strings. What is Lokum’i in Greek? In Turkish its Lokum (Turkish delight.) What is Kazan’i Cheese in Greek? Kazan is open wide dish for cooking. What is Dolma’des in Greek? Dolma in Turkish is to fill. I want go too long with this its boring. The point I am making is Greeks have lived under Turkish “Milliyet” system for so long and been protected by Ottoman Empire. They never try to change any ones religiouges belief or there culture. Very unlike our English rulers. There has never been any place English men been which they haven’t created unrest or division. We all asking for solution, division or what ever we can master and blaming it on to one another. Do you all think England and cronies like us to have a peace? If we do they will loose their bases at Avrotor (Akrotiri). There so clever buy supporting Greeks and Turks atdiffent times in many ways. Look at us our common langue is English we are all speaking it and communicating with it. Some of us better than others, but we can understand each other. So moral of this story is we are doomed to fight argue and point wrongs and rights without any conviction.
Last but not least, we seem to forget the fact we have been next to one another such a long time. Our cultures are so mixed up and so close it’s not funny. What is the reason for us not to be in peace? I love to hear some answers from you intelligent people. Please no need for patriotic stuff.

Get Real "repatriation program" ? Girit all over again? “NEVER AGAIN”
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We all know that is the ultimate Greek Cyprus agenda.
That’s why, just a few years ago Cyprus President Tassos Papadopoulos, between 2005 and 2006 has awarded medals and diplomas of service to 21.000 Greek Cypriots for taking part in the EOKA for struggle of Cyprus. ( I hope he rot’s in HELL)
If you want Cyprus without Turkish people, don’t expect UN to do it for you, join up your National guards, and let’s see how good fighter you are.
Make sure you got your running shoes and swimming trunks READY.

Technically, there’s no such thing as “Turkish Cypriots” but Ottoman remnants and they of course belong in Turkey not Cyprus! A civilized UN managed repatriation program is the best solution to the Cyprus problem as the Ottoman remnant community is unable to blend in with the indigenous Cypriots forever causing unnecessary problems.

Richard Angelis@
I am not suprised to see, History of Cyprus 1963-1974 missing in every Greek comments:
Here is a few, to remind you.
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"But gentlemen, the problem is settling itself"
From New York Times 16 February 1964
BLOOD STAINED ARCHBISHOP AND HIS BLOOD STAINED DOGS OF WAR
“We shall keep the Cyprus question open and will never close it under any circumstances or conditions until we close it through union with Greece, a genuine ENOSIS without exchanges” Makarios Greek Cypriot press 17/3/1965

“... Greek cruelties in Cyprus: Greeks have started an attack on the areas where the Turks are living. The Turks are trying to escape from the Greek attacks, 25,000 Turks have already been forced to leave their homes ....”
Daily Express 28 December 1963

“I was allowed to move through the whole besieged Turkish sector. I was taken to Kumsal district. into a green and white house .... The bathroom of this house was a blood-soaked shambles with women and three small boys lying dead huddled together in the bath, and in an adjoining room an other dead woman”. (Photo of the children in the bath on the first page)
Daily Mail 29 December 1963

“.... Archbishop Makarios, robed and bearded cleric who serves as President of Cyprus, has Byzantine talent for equitation.... His government deliberately provoked the clashes and is bent upon the extermination of Turkish population...
Robert H. Estabrooh Washington Post
16 - 2 - 1964

“The Imam of Omorphita and his paralyzed blind son were found today murdered in their beds in Nicosia. Turks returning to Omorphita suburb under British escort found the 75 year old priest. Huseyin Igneci riddled with machine - gun bullets.
Bernard Jordan Daily Mail 3 -1 - 1964

“In Cyprus the terror continues Right now we are witnessing the exodus of Turks from villages. Thousands of people are abandoning their homes, lands, herds: Greek terrorism is relentless. This time, the rhetoric of the Hellens and the busts of Plato do not suffice to cover up their barbaric and ferocious behavior. At four o’clock in the afternoon curfew is imposed on the Turkish villages. Threats, shootings and attempts of arson start as soon as it becomes dark. After the massacre during the past Christmas that spared neither women, nor children, it is difficult to put up any resistance” Giorgio Bocco IL GIORNO 14 - 01 - 1964 ... The Constitution gives the Turkish community certain social guarantees. It is a pity that these guarantees were not enough to prevent bloodshed. These guarantees were not enough, specially if the President (Makarios) continues to insist in abolishment of the constitutional rights of the Turks, will have to be safeguarded with more efficient means ..."
The Times 04 - 01 - 1964

“One of Packard’s first tasks was to try to find out what had happened to the 25 Turkish hospital patients. Secret discussions took place with a Greek Minister in the collapsed government. After a brief investigation, he was able to confirm local rumors. It appeared that Greek medical staff had slit the Turkish patient’s throats as they lay in their beds. Their bodies were loaded on to a truck and driven to a farm north of the city where they were fed into mechanical choppers and ground into the earth”. From the “Secret” report of Commander Packard, who was a high ranking British Officer in Cyprus during 1963-1964?
The Guardian 02 - 04 - 1988

Turkish Cypriots taken prisoner and later shot in the head by Greek and Greek Cypriot gunmen.
“... If Turkish Army has not already landed reinforcements to its Treaty Force in Cyprus, that is simply proof of patience of Turkey. Its right to do so cannot be denied. If international treaties mean anything, Turkey can protect the Turkish Cypriot minority from further massacre."
Daily Telegraph 15/02/1964

JT, you obviously have your reasons for your point of view but I would ask you, do you believe that your comments are more or less likely to convince TCs that they should become as one with GCs?

Richard, you articulate much using unnecessary emotive language that is bound to antagonise but show niavity in your over simplification of past issues and current realities.No rhetoric will change the situation that exists today and it is clear that TCs feel secure in their portion of the island and GCs feel anger and aggrieved at the loss of their property.Both points are understandable, so it follows that, for there to be a single state, the TCs have to be convinced that their security is assured and GCs will have property 'restored',which may mean the opportunity to phyically take possession or receive compensatory money.The likelyhood of a mass demolition of property in the North is not realistic so compensation will play a part and it is highly unlikely that there would be an immediate rush by GCs to resettle in the North anyway.

The separation has been in place for 35+ years and the solution has to be over many years (call it a Road Map) to build up the necessary confidence in the structures in place. If the EU is the Utopia then, no doubt, when aggreement is reached and the whole island is a part of this entity then, under freedom of movement, the GCs and TCs and any otherCs can move and live anywhere within the island. If this position is reached then almost certainly Turkey will be not be far behind in its membership which will mean that EU laws will prevail.

The extent of the difficulty is clear from Lala's comments and if he is typical of TCs then GCs are failing to win hearts and minds.

Richard Angelis, you are trying to say all the right things, at the same time you bypass the reality. After forty or so years it is impossible trying to turn the clock back (everyone should live in their family home etc.!)

Opinion polls in South Cyprus consistently show a majority rejecting co-existence with the neighbors in the north, unless on Greek Cypriot terms. A will to compromise looks different.
Similar attitude is now prevailing in North Cyprus.
The only reasonable way forward is a definite and final split along the green line. This is the preferred route for everyone although seldom admitted.

The current economic downturn has no bearing on the Cyprus issue as suggested by you. If Turkey takes IMF funds she does so like many other countries around the world, and the portion needed to support the TRNC is negligible in terms of the overall budget. I would worry more about the financial state of affairs in Greece.

It is also interesting to note that you claim to know what Erdogan and Talat are thinking, I wish I would be in that position.

Richard, thank you. You are clearly intelligent but please...there are two sides to a story and until you have lived in our shoes, I feel your comments are somewhat biased.

Talk about racism. And I don't mean to sound racist myself but lets leave these problems aside for a moment...are you saying that there is no racism agains us Turksih people, be it Cypriot or Mainlander? I have eyes and ears which work perfectly, and if you were us hearing the rhetoric from the south, would you embrace?

The Cypriot Greeks brought all this trouble onto themselves and now they want to turn the clocks back. For your information the 'majority' no longer want to live with eachother - unless its on their terms.

Cyprus is a unique situation....and if there is a deal we will always have to be in the majority in the Turkish state (whatever it may be called) - period, non-negotiable.

To answer your last point. We are co-founders of a republic we were ejected from by force, co-owners of an island our greek cypriot brethern deny and we have legal title deeds (pre-74) proving we already own 30% of the island. Clearly our misfortune in the 60s and 70s was that we were scattered over the island. Now we are free and yes we intend to hold onto what we got - TRNC, recognised or not, is a better option for us right now.

People bang on about occupation army etc but The turkish army were the only ones who had the balls to sort out the mess in 74....yes they were only too happy to come but who handed it to them on a plate? Shame on Britain too - what right do you have to comment now when you could have influenced the outcome? Maybe if Britain wanted to interven it would be different for your friends.

Please don't mistake me for another 'Grey Wolf'. You see, many like myself can see this situation for what it is. Many readers won't like this but Rauf Denktas has proven to be right in many aspects all along. If not, prove us worng and I'll go along with it.