Brookman,

just present your facts here and I'll gladly continue the debate.

Facts speak louder than words so as I said, once Turkey withdraws its application we can continue. Until then stop talking about "informed commentators" and instead look at the facts:

Turkey remains to this day a "candidate" country.

Brookman,

Thanks for that - hilarious I must say.

Firstly, it still amuses me to see people from other countries profess to be experts on the situation. If you're not Cypriot or Turkish Cypriot, why do you even care...

In any case we seem to be going round in circles, so please answer me this so we can stop this silliness:

You said "What is the attraction in a financially and politically bankrupt institution?" (this made me laugh..)

Let me remind you that it was TURKEY that came knocking on the EU's door and to be let in. It was TURKEY that's desperate to be accepted into the civilized world and given credibility.
It' TURKEY that wants in, NOT the other way round.

So... if they do REALLY do NOT want in.. then I expect they will shortly withdrawing their application and making an official statement that they are no longer

So, once they make that announcement, we can talk again. Before that happens we both know how desperate they are to join, so let's not waste each other's time.

As I said I'm on my edge of my seat, waiting for Turkey's withdrawal of their application, since they do not want to join... :)

Emir Soler,

Let me tell you how it is, because you're the one who's dreaming. If the Motherland (Turkey) wants to sell you guys out to get into the EU it will. It's a simple as that.

The funniest part of all this is that you guys think that you have a "government" with power in the North. What you have is a puppet with the strings controlled by Turkey. You know it and I know it.

So, if mamma-Turkey wants into the EU then I might be having that beer with you after all... and we ALL know that the GREAT DREAM of you "FATHER" Ataturk was to be European so...

PS: I can say that here, because this is a free country. Of course in Turkey I would probably be arrested, tortured and killed, right?

Christoph from USA@
Let me know when you are in Girne, I will come and buy you a pint of EFES.
Keep dreaming.

Get Real@
Carry on selling your Turkish delight, in the street corners in Cyprus,
'
Resolution 573 (1974)
2. Condemning the coup d'etat carried out in Cyprus by officers owing allegiance to the
Greek military dictatorship;
3. Regretting the failure of the attempt to reach a diplomatic settlement which led the
Turkish Government to exercise its right of intervention in accordance with Article 4 of
the Guarantee Treaty of 1960

Sorry, just read the hilarious post by Ismet Ustuner.

He thinks the Orams still have more room for appeal..but then again what do you expect from someone living in a country where news censorship is so bad they're even banning youtube now:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870414010457505731353921988...

What a country, eh? In the same list of countries that ban youtube, like N. Korea, Zimbabwe etc.. Well done mate...

Troodo,

I prefer dealing in facts rather than making things up like "most TC's that apply get shafted".

So, there is at least one case that had a successful conclusion, which if you'd read my earlier post you would have seen: http://businessneweurope.eu/story1962/BRICKS__MORTAR_Cyprus_concedes_to_...

Other than that, please, please let us know of those unsuccessful TCs?

I would be very interested to know how many have indeed been unsuccessful and look forward to your detailed data. Of course all of this is in the public domain so I'm sure you'll have no difficulties in listing a number of cases here...

For the record, these are (just a few) of the successful cases against Turkey and others that resulted in sizeable damages:

Apostolides v Orams
Loizidou v. Turkey (USD 915,000 paid in damages)
Myra Xenides v. Turkey
Demades vs Turkey (EUR 835,000 awarded)

Look forward to your data.

There is no legal impediment to Turkish Cypriots claiming their property in the south and in fact there never was. ALL Turkish Cypriots with valid passports are citizens of the Republic of Cyprus and therefore EU citizens with full fights:

http://businessneweurope.eu/story1962/BRICKS__MORTAR_Cyprus_concedes_to_...

This is the difference between the legitimate Republic of Cyprus and the puppet “state” in the North…

You're in error, Ismet Ustuner. Apparently you don't get truthful news in TRNC. The Orams are out of appeals, they filed to have their house demolished.

Justice has been done regarding the Orams, the squatters were sent packing. My advice to you is to learn Greek.

Christoph@ are you still dreaming? Still planing retiring to Girne? it is not going to happen.
Greeks claim Turkey invaded Cyprus 1974.
Turkey’s July 20, 1974 intervention on Cyprus was legal, say the Athens Court of Appeals and the Council of Europe.
The Council of Europe adopted Resolution 573 on July 29, 1974 on this particular case, stating that Turkey’s intervention on Cyprus was a legitimate act emanating from the Treaty of Guarantee, Part IV.
The historical decision of the Athens Court of Appeals, No. 2658/79, dates back to March 21, 1979.
Fact: First invader of Cyprus was 20.000 Greek soldiers was in 1964, it is officially recorded by UN that some 20,000 Greek were sent to the island of Cyprus with their armoured vehicles, arsenal, ammunitions. In 1968 illegal Greek troops were forced to go back to Greece by an ultimatum from Turkey.
When it comes to settlers look at Greek Cyprus what they are up to :
When the backgrounds of the 500,000 voters in the May 2006 Greek Cypriot elections were analyzed, a stunning outcome surfaced, clearly revealing the number of Greek settlers clandestinely accumulated on the island since 1961.
The breakdown of “Greek settlers” on the island is approximately as follows:
Pontus Greek Cypriots: 60,000- 70,000
Citizens of the former Soviet Republic: 30,000
Christians who fled Lebanon: 15,000-20,000
Immigrants from Greece: 100,000
Asylum-seeking Kurds: 2,500-3,000
Asylum-seeking citizens from third countries: 9,500
Total “Greek settlers in Cyprus”: approximately 230,000
By the way Christoph, British and USA troops are still in Germany since 1944

M Yilmaz: “It appears that the Turkish Cypriot population are being penalised for surviving ethnic cleansing since the 1960's and three genocide attempts”

Now is a good time to lookup the word “genocide” in a dictionary because after “three attempts” you’re all still alive! :)

It is fortunate for the Turkish Cypriots to learn now, that the Oram's case and the demands being made by the EU to Turkey for joining the EU, brings home the fact that the Greek people are not really interested in solving the Cyprus problems, and that the diplomatic negotiations are just a front. Peace, equality, nor justice will be possible in Cyprus and for that reason, the Turkish army will be staying there.
It is ironic that Turkey's intervention in Cyprus brought democracy to Greece by bringing down the junta, and re-established Makarios as the Greek Cypriot leader. Both Greece and the Greek Cypriots are indebted to Turkey.
It appears that the Turkish Cypriot population are being penalised for surviving ethnic cleansing since the 1960's and three genocide
attempts, with Europe's blessing.
My family own land in Larnaka which the Greek authorities have been using as a car park for the last 36 years. We have not received a penny in rent and we are planning to take action to recover these monies. We have many friends in similar circumstances and they are also in the process of preparing individual cases. After all, what is good for the goose, is good for the gander.

well what can i say...if the greek cypriots took advantage of the ANNAN PLAN at the time,then this would have been avoidable..Also upto now all the greek cypriot builders used the orams case in advertising and because of its not part of the EU prices in northern cyprus remained low,therefore this causes the greek cypriot compensations being low and the turkish cypriot compensations are high...think twice..sometimes the gun you are pointing could turn and shoot you..

Terry: “A wise man once said... Follow an idiot home and Cypriot parents will answer the door.”

That’s something you’ve invented but I wouldn’t call you wise… :)

Caroline: “All of us must realise that resorting to the courts is no solution”

On the contrary, the courts have been VERY effective so far so it’s expected that this trend will skyrocket especially once the bogus "negotiations" have terminated.

Christoph writes;
"I don't agree with those who challenge ROC Courts as being 'biased' ..............................."
I suggest he gets real and contacts Mr O'Dwyer or read about his, and other Court & Police incidents where bias has been shown; predominately against British citizens but also Cypriots.
As stated by Ismet Ustuner, there was a definite bias against the Orams in the way the case was handled and it was lost because this was not challenged fully.

Piratis is making a valid point here but consider this: the Turkish Cypriot who recived "Exchange Land" transfers the "Title given by Denktash" to someone else. ROC may be aware of what has happened but since they do not recognize such titles they could not take any notice of it and it would be almost impossible to prove any "tresspass" for any length of time. Where do you go from there?
Such points prove once again that such a mess can only be sorted out politically and trying to be clever in court cannot solve any problem. I tell you what will happen. Last time the British got the Cypriots fight each other and as a result ran away with a chunk of Cyprus. Next time round the Americans will do likewise and in return help Turkish Cypriots pay some compensation to the Greek Cypriots. How is that?
PS: Lack of comment on the "Kangaroo Court" is very telling

Before Makarios Droushiotis gets too excited about putting the boot in the RoC with this article, I strongly advise him to pay special attention to the case: ”Demopoulos and 7 others vs Turkey” which challenges the legality and effectiveness of the “Immovable Property Commission” (IPC) which you can read about here…

http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/view.asp?item=1&portal=hbkm&action=htm...

As yet, I haven’t come across a chamber judgment for this case but you can be sure that it will either make or break the dodgy "IPC"!

I also remind that the number of GC refugees are FOUR times as many as the TC refugees, and that most of the TC refugee properties ARE easily transferable to the legit owners under the “Turkish Cypriot properties Management Service”…

http://www.moi.gov.cy/moi/citizenscharter/citizenscharter.nsf/dmltkprolo...

…whereas NONE of the GC properties are available by the Turkish invader/occupier!

If compensation were to be paid to every refugee, YOU calculate how much the RoC would have to pay up compared to the “TRNC”!!!

(Just for the record Myra Xenides-Arestis were paid €850,000 by the IPC and not peanuts as this article foolishly claims)

Makarios, you should’ve waited for this ECHR outcome before jumping to conclusions! :)

How can the Turkish Cypriots look upon the ROC as unbiased with no Turkish Cypriot judge sitting despite the constitution? In the recent Orams case, the ten day limit for filing a "Memorandum of Appearence" expired on a Friday. On Monday Candoudas applied to court "to prove" his case and he was given a chance next day Tuesday to do so. In the meantime, the advocate for Orams Gunesh Mentesh gave in the "Memorandum of Appearence" in English and it was rejected since only Greek and Turkish are the official languages of ROC. FAir enough, he asked for forms in Turkish and he was told to come back next day. He came early on Tuesday and he was old to come back after 10 am. So he came at 10 o'clock, he tried to hand in the "Memorandum of Appearence" but was told that it was too late because the judge had already gave judgement against Orams. Normally in such serious cases like tresspass, the judge would postpone the case for at least one month and also order that the hearing date is served on the defendants. In this case, Orams's advocate was kept waiting for the necessarry forms in Turkish whilst the judge heard the case in a hurry and finished it. How can a Turkish Cypriot trust such a "Kangaroo Court"?

Dirk from London: Thank you for your comments, well said!
If a Turkish Cypriot was given land/property in the north in exchange for what he left behind in the south, he should wait until a solution to sort out the problem.
But, why should TCs living abroad who did not receive any GC property be deprived of their property rights in the Republic unless they go and live there for a certain time. This rule did not apply to GCs claiming their property in the north. It is balatant racism by the Greek Cypriot dominated RoC and would not stand up in an independent court.
It is obvious the property issue needs a political solution.

Ouch. I just wrote a lot of my inner thoughts and when I pressed the button it all disappeared.
But to recap, I wanted to thank Kirios Droushiotis for his fair comments and for pointing out that the Orams decision could lead to huge headaches (plus a lot of income for a few lawyers).
There is much confusion in the North as to why Mr Apostolides should want that tiny corner of the former 'ancestral home' which was sold by Turkish Cypriots to the Orams, and while Turkish Cypriots still occupy the bulk of the land, plus the former home!

But for all it is said the RoC have protected former Turkish Cypriot properties, that surely does NOT include the 26 or so villages that were razed in 1976 ensuring no Turkish Cyprjiot could ever return. Not only houses, but mosques, cemeteries and everything connected with a community life was bullsdozed, and the rubble still remains as a reminder of the obliteration of part of Cyprus' life style.
What is to be their compensation then?

But may I say in closing how I appreciate that Mr Ioannou's comments display a rather disappointing use of language, and an unecessary vilification of both the writer and the newspaper. It seems to me as a non-Cypriot that this kind of venom does little for the hopes of a future for this country torn apart by its own history - which is, incidentally, in the main, much misrepresented.

Thanks again for Mr Droushiotis' unblinkered vision of how it really is. Efkaristo parapoli.

Your report is wholely in accurate.

The airport is not built totally on TC land at all, but a mere 4000m2 in one small corner is TC land. The RoC is not pay a monthly sum at all but any rents due are held in trust with the TC land gaurdian, the RoC until a solution is met.

Furthermore, land expropriated for major public works (airports, roads, hospitals) are compensated accordingly and cannot be demaned back.

Such poor, propoganda style writing leaves a bad taste in everyone mouth and does nothing to promote the unification to the islands problem.

How dare you sprea such lies to the wider public without first checking you facts, it is discgracefull and you paper is only worthy of being in the gutter as gutter press.

You should be ashamed of yourselfs and immeniately print a retracts and an apology.

I might have guessed it was makarios Droushotis, what a poor pisspot writer totally anti GC and it has been alleged that he is also bent, to the point to try and undermine the good efforts of the RoC.

This is further proof that the Cyprus mail, is a biased, propoganderised, anti-GC paper and is not even worth taking seriously.

Christoph from the USA says;
"Those owning the property need to be compensated in a fair way (as determined in a Court), but the airport need not be demolished."
This seems fair enough to me but I would ask which court? The "ROC" court which is hardly impartial and, as several recent events have shown, is corrupt? I don't think so!

"If you dig a hole for someone else, you'll fall into it"

‘
That is what TRNC is saying for years. But who listens? At the end of the day it has to be a political solution.